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UPDATE #2 - 10/9: Porsche accuses Nissan GT-R of cheating the 'Ring

Discussion in 'General Car Discussions' started by EastEndMotorSports, Sep 30, 2008.

  1. EastEndMotorSports

    EastEndMotorSports New Member

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    [​IMG]

    Sour grapes or legitimate complaint? That's the question we're left pondering after reading that Porsche believes Nissan must have cheated to record its 7:29:03 lap time of the famed Nürburgring race circuit. Porsche claims that it had been suspicious of the Nissan's lap times, so it acquired a U.S.-spec GT-R for testing back-to-back with its own 911 Turbo and GT2. The result? The mighty Godzilla was toppled by the Teutonic German duo, with the GT-R posting times a good 25-seconds slower than Nissan's claim.

    How can Porsche explain the discrepancy? "This wonder car with 7:29 could not have been a regular series production car. For us, it's not clear how this time is possible. What we can imagine with this Nissan is they used other tires," says August Achleitner, the man in charge of the 911 program. There is footage of the GT-R lapping the 'Ring at high speed, but it's taken from inside the car where the tires cannot be seen.

    Considering the fact that Nissan saw fit to issue a press release commemorating the car's fast-lap, we doubt this is something that will be taken lightly. There's a big can 'o worms here, and Porsche's in the corner holding the opener.

    -AutoBlog


    :eek:hsnap:

    http://www.autoblog.com/2008/09/30/porsche-accuses-nissan-gt-r-of-cheating-the-ring/#comments
     
    #1
  2. Nachtmensch

    Nachtmensch New Member

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    uh oh :eek:hsnap:
     
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  3. g3teg97

    g3teg97 New Member

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    Wow.

    So Porsche's driver was 25 seconds slower than Nissan's claim? I thought there was a video with the GTR.
     
    #3
  4. Nachtmensch

    Nachtmensch New Member

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    there is, but that doesnt matter if the car was tweaked from factory settings. the times are for production based cars, so the change of tires, ecu reflash, etc are all unfair and cheating.
     
    #4
  5. JussHatched

    JussHatched Active Member

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    hmm thats interesting. Cheating = lame, but that car is still sexy as hell.
     
    #5
  6. Daniel
    Fine

    Daniel Active Member

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    There maybe some incentive to discredit Nissan, not saying Porsche's trial run was incorrect etc. But couldn't Nissan run a Turbo 911 and say the same thing?

    A 25 second difference is huge and at 7:54 it is still above the F430 and behind a Carrera S. This can be bad for Nissan and the value of the car which it is being sold at which have been shown upto $130K. I guess I still would take a GT3 over one.
     
    #6
  7. g3teg97

    g3teg97 New Member

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    Yeah I guess your right...didn't think of that.
     
    #7
  8. Specter

    Specter New Member

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    well... does anyone know the specs on the Porsche that they ran? diff tires? reflashed? we don't know, we're taking Prosche's word on if that car was "Stock"

    there are two sides to every coin, idk what Nissan is going to do, but i'm betting that it's going to be entertaining
     
    #8
  9. JDaM_Driver

    JDaM_Driver New Member

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    I heard that.
     
    #9
  10. ONEateEessex

    ONEateEessex New Member

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    i think thats very weak on behalf of porsche. they shouldnt be talking that kind of trash with out proof. i personaly dont care, sence i wont be affording any of those cars anytime soon. but they did still say the nissan was faster right. thatsa good thing i guess

    by the way i should be taking a trip to the mean green on the 12th of october to flog my IS300 a bit. i dont plan to go 10/10th's sence i dont have the suspension tires and brakes to handle it but it should be fun around 7-8/10. i just hope its dry. expect pics and maybe some vids.
     
    #10
  11. EastEndMotorSports

    EastEndMotorSports New Member

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    UPDATE

    As expected, Nissan has responded to Porsche's claims that the GT-R isn't quite as fast as they say it is. In fact, representatives for the German automaker suggested that Nissan may have used racing slicks to achieve the 7:29:03 lap time of the Nürburgring. Says Nissan, "The final word from us is that it was done on absolutely standard tires which are available to customers in the showroom. They're not trick tires – absolutely standard tires, normal road tires."

    Despite the allegations, Nissan is remaining calm about the issue, adding that the fast time was set by its racing driver, Tochio Suzuki, and achieved using the GT-R's optional Dunlop tires. Could it be that Porsche purchased a model with the slightly slower Bridgestones? Maybe, but can having the right tires could account for a 25-second lap time difference? In any case, Nissan's taking the high-road, falling short of suggesting that Porsche's drivers are slow.

    -Autoblog


    http://www.autoblog.com/2008/10/03/nissan-defends-gt-r-ring-time/
     
    #11
  12. Daniel
    Fine

    Daniel Active Member

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    Looks like it's going to heat up from here on out. Porsche will need to step up its game with the 998s because Nissan will with its V-Spec model. I'm totally torn, I love Porsches but I have a soft spot for Nissans. I think independent testing from Sport Auto will resolve this.
     
    #12
  13. Nachtmensch

    Nachtmensch New Member

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    i see it now, Porsche will now offer race slicks as a dealer installed option. :cheers: i can see them saying, "we can play this game too"

    i would take a 997 Turbo over a GT-R anyday, without hesitation.
     
    #13
  14. g3teg97

    g3teg97 New Member

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    I don't think the Dunlop tires can shave off 25 seconds over the Bridgestones.
     
    #14
  15. EastEndMotorSports

    EastEndMotorSports New Member

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    Its feasible, not to mention that considering the engines are hand made and that one of the things about the GT-R is that the claimed horsepower is just a kinda estimate. There was Motor Trend's GT-R that was putting out about 507 crank horsepower as opposed to the 480 claimed horsepower. If Nissan's GT-R had a more powerful engine, the Dunlop tires, and a better driver... it could be possible
     
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  16. ONEateEessex

    ONEateEessex New Member

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    i think its entirely possible. with a good driver that knows the car. and better tires.

    try it your self fire up gt4 pick any car start with street tires run 2 laps then switch to comps you see a big differance.

    the nurburgring isnt a quick track. it takes realy fast cars just to break into the 9 minute range and then super fast cars to break the 7 minute range.
    a change that you net you a couple of seconds on a 1minuteish track will knock 5-10 seconds off at the nurburgring.

    one more week untill i find out for myself.:rocks:
     
    #16
  17. EastEndMotorSports

    EastEndMotorSports New Member

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    awww.blogcdn.com_www.autoblog.com_media_2008_10_nissanskylinegtr_abg_04_opt.jpg
    The GT-R/911 schoolyard scuffuffle continues, with Nissan looking at Porsche's test and basically saying "yer doin it wrong" to the German automaker. Chief engineer Kazutoshi Mizuno has graciously offered remedial driving classes to the driver for Porsche's lapping session where a GT-R was reportedly 25 seconds off Nissan's torrid time of 7 minutes, 29 seconds. Porsche had concluded that special tires must have been quietly fitted in a quest for 'Ring primacy. Porsche has yet to say anything other than "Ve don't sink zee car can do it in schtock form."

    Not so, says Nissan. While a claim to the fastest production car on the Nürburgring might help prospective customers froth up some money, and owners are unlikely to try verifying the claim, Nissan is not interested in wasting time on one-offs, according to Mizuno. "For us, testing the car in standard production specification is far more relevant", says the engineer. The very tires that carried driver Toshio Suzuki on the 7:29 run are in the hands of Sumitomo, and Nissan would encourage interested parties to STFU and go look at the rolling stock. It seems Nissan thinks Porsche needs a little help figuring out the GT-R, to which the company will be happy to help. "We are aware that several automakers have purchased the GT-R for their own testing and evaluation," Nissan says in its most recent rebuttal, "we would welcome the opportunity to help any auto manufacturer with understanding the full capabilities of the GT-R."
    -Autoblog


    NISSAN'S STATEMENT:
    Statement

    NISSAN GT-R TEST PROCEDURES

    In light of comments made recently in the media concerning the testing of the Nissan GT-R, it is clear that there are some important facts that were not accurately represented.

    Background

    o On September 24, 2007 the Nissan GT-R recorded a lap time of the Nordschleife circuit at Germany's Nurburgring of seven minutes and 38 seconds. This lap time was completed in weather conditions that the Nissan test team knew would not show the full potential of the car.


    o On April 17, 2008 the Nissan test team was back at the Nurburgring and recorded a new lap time of seven minutes and 29 seconds, several times.


    o For all testing at the Nurburgring and other circuits such as Sendai Highlands in Japan, the GT-R development team used production specification vehicles with production specification tires. These tests are part of the extensive performance and durability program undertaken before, during and after the commercial introduction of the GT-R.


    o The GT-R is a world-class supercar developed to be sold in multiple global markets. While specifications can differ across the various markets, the cars used to record both Nurburgring lap times were identical to the Japanese market production specification cars.


    o For the April 2008 test, the GT-R carried an additional 50kg of weight due to the Marelli data recorder and video camera equipment. In addition, the test was witnessed by 'Best Motoring' magazine from Japan who reported the test in their July 2008 issue, which included a DVD program of the session.


    o Nissan records the lap times around the Nurburgring using the same methodology and measuring locations as Sport Auto Magazine in Germany. Sport Auto Magazine provides the most consistent and objective measurement of lap times around the Nurburgring, allowing accurate comparisons between different vehicles.


    o In both timed lap sessions at the Nurburgring, chief test driver and professional racing driver, Toshio Suzuki was at the wheel. Suzuki has been the chief test driver on the GT-R program throughout the vehicle's development.


    Tires

    The GT-R offers two different tire choices for customers:

    o Bridgestone POTENZA RE070R
    o Dunlop SP SPORT 600 DSST CTT


    o For the tests conducted at the Nurburgring where the lap times of 7:38 and 7:29 were recorded, the Dunlop tires were used. The tires – which are designed for high performance driving in the dry and wet - used in the tests were identical to the production specification tires available to GT-R customers.


    o In June, 2008 Dunlop Japan issued a press release announcing that their tires had been used by Nissan to record the 7:29 lap time. The release can be accessed in Japanese and English at:

    http://www.dunlop.co.jp/newsrelease/2008/2008_039.htm

    http://www3.srigroup.co.jp/CACHE/news_news_e_newsobj144_2008.cfm

    o For any media interested in seeing the actual tires used at the test (7:29 lap time), they should contact the Public Relations Department at Sumitomo Rubber Industries, Ltd. in Japan.


    Driving the GT-R

    o Consistent with industry benchmarking practices, we are aware that several auto makers have purchased the GT-R for their own testing and evaluation. Like all GT-R customers, we recommend that any auto maker buying a GT-R should follow the recommended run-in procedures, service schedules and maintenance to ensure the maximum performance from their car.


    o In addition, we offer performance driving courses for prospective and current GT-R owners to help them get the best performance from their car. We would welcome the opportunity to help any auto manufacturer with understanding the full capabilities of the GT-R.


    Remarks

    From Kazutoshi Mizuno, Chief Vehicle Engineer and Chief Product Specialist for GT-R:

    "We have used circuits like the Nurburgring and Sendai extensively during the development of the GT-R. The fastest lap-time was never the objective but a simple parameter for us to measure the GT-R in a consistent way against other world class supercars."

    "Testing a car with specialized parts such as unique tires or suspension has no meaning for us. The GT-R was designed from the start to be a supercar that could be driven anywhere, anytime and by anyone. For us, testing the car in standard production specification is far more relevant than creating a one-off vehicle that our customers cannot buy."





    Conclusion
    Due to the weather conditions at the Nurburgring, testing has now stopped and will resume around April 2009. Nissan will be back at the Nurburgring testing both the standard GT-R and upcoming additional models. We look forward to welcoming more members of the media to join us for these test sessions, consistent with our transparency at previous test sessions.


    Haha you gotta love this
    awww.blogcdn.com_www.autoblog.com_media_2008_10_nissanskylinegtr_abg_04_opt.jpg
     
    #17
  18. Daniel
    Fine

    Daniel Active Member

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    Well put by Nissan, Porsche simply needs to step up their game.
     
    #18
  19. Nachtmensch

    Nachtmensch New Member

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    time for Porsche to offer R comps as an option if you ask me :spitdrink:

    should be interesting once Honda gets their NSX successor posting up times.
     
    #19
  20. EastEndMotorSports

    EastEndMotorSports New Member

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    Yeah definitely, but the V-Spec R35 w/ also be interesting
     
    #20

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